Archways' Threads

Narrator 00:02
Welcome to Archways' Threads, a show focusing on the threads of family and recovery support services that help make up the tapestry of life in recovery. Join us as we share stories from peers and participants in the field and practice of peer recovery support and family support and strengthening. And now your host, Archways' CEO, Michelle Lennon.

Michelle Lennon 00:28
Hello, I'm Michelle Lennon, and I'm one of the co-authors of the Family Threads Curriculum. And we are joined today by one of the families who have completed the program, and we are going to hear from them, how they have come from, you know, active addiction, living in crisis, living out of a jeep, experiencing homelessness, to entering treatment, and then coming out of the treatment program, and then working with two of our employees, a family support specialist and a peer recovery coach. And they have come back to visit today, just to talk about some of the things that they went through and the successes that they have experienced.

Michelle Lennon 01:07
Hello, everyone. My name is Michelle Lennon, and I am with one of our families from our Family Threads program. We have Marina, Star, and Colton with us today, and we're just going to talk a little bit about the program.

Marina 01:19
Sounds good.

Michelle Lennon 01:20
All right, so the first thing I wanted to ask you, what caused you to engage with the Family Threads program to begin with? How did you end up meeting with, I think it was Tanya that you started working with, right?

Marina 01:29
It was Brett initially.

Michelle Lennon 01:30
Oh, Brett.

Marina 01:32
Because we needed... we had just completed programs for recovery service, though Laconia, and we were in a time crunch because I was pregnant, and we needed a place that would help us with resources and getting back on our feet. And initially I was kind of opposed to it, because I'm not huge on reaching out for help, because I don't know if the help is going to be genuine or if there's going to be general impacts. That's definitely kind of described that you're gonna be walked in.

Michelle Lennon 02:06
So you entered recovery with the treatment program, and then afterwards was looking for those supports.

Marina 02:15
Yeah, because unfortunately, when we were leaving sobriety centers, they didn't really equip us the things that we needed in order to continue recovery. They might have just like booted me to the door, and they're like, "Alright, now it's up to you guys."

Michelle Lennon 02:32
Yeah.

Marina 02:33
And with the baby on the way, it was vital importance to get housing, to get a vehicle, to get all the necessary things so we could raise a healthy boy. And it's because of you that we have, you know, I mean, so, so.

Michelle Lennon 02:53
Really, though we created opportunity for you. You guys did the hard work though, you know, I always think like we're not the heroes, like the families of the heroes, right? And I think we talked about this a little bit just about, you know, you gotta meet us halfway. You know, there's work to do. And when you started the program, we worked with a number of assessments, one from Colorado, the Colorado family assessment. When you did those assessments, what did that feel like?

Marina 03:21
That's a little nerve wracking because I didn't know kind of what the results would be. And I'm not huge on sharing modus of operation. I didn't really want that to be used against me. And I think when you're an active addiction, you're used to people just looking at you in a certain way and treating you in certain way. So there's a lot of fear of not being taken, seriously.

Michelle Lennon 03:46
Yeah.

Marina 03:47
But I mean, sometimes you have to take that leap of faith, and have the trust.

Michelle Lennon 03:53
It's not all bad though.

Star 03:55
You know, kind of like, several have I tried and it wasn't working.

Marina 04:06
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 04:07
Yeah. So today, you have two years that you haven't had a drink or a drug, and it's been, how hard to maintain that?

Star 04:19
I mean, well, after, you know, we got a place, and had Colton I was struggling a lot easier.

Michelle Lennon 04:27
Yeah.

Marina 04:28
Yeah.

Star 04:29
For me, anyways.

Michelle Lennon 04:30
How was having housing to your success?

Marina 04:34
So important. I mean, the, the constant fear of not having a place to land in tough, cold right? Like, I didn't want to see DCF to come in and be like, you're unsuitable. It's unfair because you don't have a place. And so we didn't sign the lease until we, before he was born. So that was like, so she ended up telling me. So there's, there's a lot of fear, because, you know, as a parent, you never, I mean, at least for me like that, that would be strategy. So that's why I'm trying every day to do the best that I can.

Michelle Lennon 05:17
I mean, you've done a lot on your life already, yeah. So what have you done for schooling since, since this all happened?

Marina 05:23
I've applied to a grant. I'm a perfectionist, and I'm very hard on myself, so it took me a bit to acrtually write that paper and to submit it, and because I kept getting in my own way. But lo and behold, I was accepted. I just signed up for my courses. My schedule is set. You know, everything's going really smoothly. The first time in my life, it kind of feels surreal, because, you know, I'm been in active addiction so long. You're always waiting for that second shoe to drop. Always on guard. You're always looking over your shoulder, always anticipating the worst. Um, but this is the first time where it's been a stretch of just good, goodness.

Michelle Lennon 06:19
Yeah, you've worked hard. You both have, I mean, I think to myself how it's not easy sustaining recovery in the early days to begin with, and then you're also dealing with being pregnant.

Marina 06:33
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 06:34
You know?

Star 06:34
I think housing, it was, it was kind of all in one at various, we were in new place where you got to, you know, people that can, you know, that you guys made that, you know, so much easier.

Michelle Lennon 06:48
Yeah.

Marina 06:49
Because Tanya, Tanya came in, she's, she's a force fear, I think she came in, and she was like, "All right, this is what you gotta do. This is what you had." And then I was like, "All right, well," and then I jumped on filling out the application, but brought it back to total motivation. And I was like all right, so you did what you were asked. And she's like, "Right now, I have over 250 applications that were signed."

Star 07:15
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 07:15
Yeah.

Marina 07:15
And we got probably 10/12, rejections before we got picked.

Star 07:22
Gina just sat down with us and we went over everything.

Michelle Lennon 07:26
So, 200 housing applications, 12 rejections before you got on. How hard would that have been for anybody to do on their own without support?

Star 07:37
I mean, it's kind of where it comes to play.

Michelle Lennon 07:41
Yeah.

Marina 07:42
And I think, I think when you're leading to recovery, you're still kind of in the headspace of you need instant results because, people of addiction know, you used to drink because you get instant results. So he kept providing, like, you know, patience is a virtue, something this, you just have to keep doing the right thing. And I'm not the most patient person.

Michelle Lennon 08:10
It's hard when you're doing the right thing, and the things don't happen right away. It makes you wonder, you know, why am I doing and?

Marina 08:16
Yeah, a lot with, so.

Michelle Lennon 08:21
Yeah.

Marina 08:22
It's like, I don't know if this is going to work out. I don't know if we'll be in time. But then in life, that's the thing that I can find, like something brave. Especially in the early stages is that no matter how hard you jump to that, you keep getting up. If I keep showing up, You gotta keep putting time to it, because nobody's gonna do it for you.

Michelle Lennon 08:45
And that's, you know, really fighting against your own physiology when you're doing that too, because in early recovery, your executive functioning is still impaired and and having that support for filling out paperwork even, you know, can be so important, yeah.

Marina 08:58
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 08:59
Yeah. So if anybody, if anybody, asks you, what the benefits of the program were throughout like, can you think back like, it sounds like pain filling out paperwork. You know, I do think like for people in recovery, when we look at the stages of recovery, we know that executive functioning takes time to get back. You know that, that need for instant gratification is so present, and when it doesn't happen right away, and systems work slowly, and you guys had a heavy deadline. How was, how was managing the stress? Like, did having the peer recovery support worker like, help you to manage the stress of all that?

Star 09:36
I would say, yeah, and I know her and Gina talked a lot.

Marina 09:39
I mean, I know Gina, both for me, Gina and Tanya were the two driving forces, like kept me on track, because now there are so many times we can't go under, and I would end up sobbing, because we're getting closer and closer to due date, and we're not getting what's happening. But I think you know having people that you get across and who will protect your emotions and your feelings will, you know, validate them, and being seen as human in the first time goes a long way.

Michelle Lennon 10:19
It's important to have all the resources too. I think about, you know, the treatment programs, you know, 30 days, and you're supposed to be good on your own, like, that's not reality, right?

Marina 10:30
No.

Michelle Lennon 10:30
And, but you still need that interruption to using.

Marina 10:33
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 10:34
To kind of stabilize that and, you know, and then coming into a program that has that recovery coach that is non judgmental, has been there before. You know is, you know, understands what you're going for when could just.

Star 10:48
Relate to.

Michelle Lennon 10:48
Yeah.

Star 10:49
So, I mean, they said understand, and, you know, we don't judge.

Marina 10:54
Like, you can tell going through a place by its members. And I think that the beauty of ours was, like a lot of genuineness with the people who work there, and it's just you like, have like, I, I don't know those people. I have a hard time trusting people, because I've been though a lot. And I think having somebody like you guys, who you know didn't have an agenda. You didn't, you know ,have stings attached. You did it from the goodness of your heart. And that's what would be impossible to kind of reverting the full gear to keep going. Progressing.

Michelle Lennon 11:46
Interesting.

Marina 11:47
Keep pressing, keep trusting that something would get.

Michelle Lennon 11:50
And now you're working on some big goals, you know, graduate school.

Marina 11:53
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 11:54
And social work and.

Marina 11:55
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 11:56
Studying, you know, trauma and form process

Marina 11:56
It feels surreal because, you know, I especially, I said this to you not too long like I've accomplished more on these two years, than I ever did with my 12 years of binge drinking, that says a lot. You know.

Michelle Lennon 12:15
I think one of the key things is not to stop setting goals now, you know, for your lives, because sometimes we get through the crisis and then stop setting goals, and then that's when life gets a little stagnant, you know? And that yeah, just never stop growing.

Marina 12:33
Yeah, yeah, we do have because when you start forgetting what you have in front of you. That's when things get a little dicey.

Michelle Lennon 12:43
Yeah.

Marina 12:44
Just like counting your blessings every day, and you have that. We get to wake up to this beautiful boy every day, and then get to wake up to each other sober and that, you know, our bodies are healing and our brains are healing, and that we're actually doing something good for ourselves, and we're not a menace to society anymore, like that's that's enough fuel to keep going.

Michelle Lennon 13:07
Yeah. So did you guys enter recovery together, like at the same time? You did?

Star 13:11
Yeah, it's a different place, at first, for detox, and then for developing strategies.

Michelle Lennon 13:18
And then kind of tackle this together as a couple. I asked the question, because there were a lot of people that have been programmed kind of by, I'll just say, you know, 12 step, and some of the things that were the only games in town for a long time for recovery supports who think that people cannot recover together and that families can't recover together.

Star 13:39
Yeah. We get that a lot.

Marina 13:40
We got a lot of pushback at sobriety centers. Like "no, you guys can't do that." And you know that just drove us to prove them wrong, because it's like, it's not your place to tell us what we can and cannot do, and I think it made it more possible doing it side by side, and it allowed me to understand him more and to be more empathetic to his journey and struggles. Because, honestly, I didn't, I don't have the wording, but I guess, like, because we met when we were actively drinking, I never took the time to slow down and see, like, okay, like he's doing this for a reason. There's pain, there's a lot of obstacles like he has to, he had to overcome. And so I think doing it together, like that relationship strengthened.

Michelle Lennon 14:32
Yeah, because you're doing the work together.

Marina 14:33
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 14:34
You're not the first couple that we've worked with that, that stayed together and entered recovery together and supported each other through the process. And my, my family, I think told you, you know, we stayed together. Like we, you know, I, you know, you have well meaning people, like, "Oh, throw them out" or or break up with them, or whatever. And one of the things that we train our coaches is that you don't get to decide somebody's identity for that.

Marina 14:59
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 15:00
You know, if they're identifying that they are, they are a couple, and they are going to do this together, then you support that.

Marina 15:05
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 15:06
You know that when we talk about persons that have practice, you know, I do find some programs talk a good game, but when it comes down to it, they still want to tell them what, tell you what to do.

Marina 15:19
Don't like to be restricted by certain guidelines and, and honestly, I think sobriety centers sometimes sucked AA out of us because it was a requirement to stay at the sober house. You go to a meeting. Everything was AA, AA.

Michelle Lennon 15:38
And it works for a lot of people.

Marina 15:41
Yeah. And, you know, saying, like, don't, you know, don't engage me. I think my biggest piece of advice is you really got to listen to yourself. You got to be a leader, and you're can't be just a follower.

Michelle Lennon 15:54
Yeah.

Marina 15:57
Because I know that the biggest chance for relapse is when you're not doing stuff.

Michelle Lennon 16:05
Yeah.

Marina 16:05
When you're following the crowd. Because you know you might get a good rapport by going to the meetings and stuff, but I can't sit in the room for an hour.

Star 16:20
If we're doing one thing I did pick up from people, is that it's not meant for everybody, but at least you can learn some rules and take them with you.

Michelle Lennon 16:32
Sure, and you know, the more tools you have in your belt, the better, you know. And I would say that, that people come to recovery in different ways. People support their recovery. You can take him out, it's fine. You could take him. Yeah, bye, bye.

Marina 16:53
He's so sassy.

Michelle Lennon 16:56
He knows what he wants, and he gets a response. So good parenting right there, right so.

Marina 17:04
I mean, that's, I think being sober that's helped channel this. How do we want to create the whole environment, you know, like, because we both came during very chaotic family growing up, and there was a lot of yelling, there was a lot of judgment, there was a lot of shame, there was a lot of guilt, there was a lot of fear, and that's what led me to pick up a drink when I was 12, because it was like, I can't sleep at night, and I would have to put a dresser in front of my door because there's no lock. So I think in getting sober and having a kid, it's like my right now, I have agency, and I get to kind of dictate how this house kind of functions. So we have a rule, there's no arguing in the house. There's no anger. If we're upset, you know, we talk it through. We don't scream at each other, because we know that it affects Colton because kids pick up on energy. So.

Michelle Lennon 18:06
Yeah. We talk about the knowledge of childhood development, you know, as being a protective factor for parents. And, you know, just seeing like the serve and return relationship, you know, between dad and baby, you know, and mom and to baby, and mom to dad, and dad to mom, like, that's, that's like, what we dream of for him, and just wonder, like, how did you get there?

Marina 18:30
It took a lot of work with each other to understand. Because I think communication is huge for us. Even if it's a difficult situation, it's uncomfortable, we always talk it through because now it's not just about me and it's not just about him, it's about us, and the family that we're growing and the way that we navigate it is going to have an effect on it. And so our goal has always been to raise a kid or kids that don't have to heal from their childhood. And I know that's pretty ambitious, but I think it's doable. I mean, I wish I didn't have to heal from everything I went through. I wish that, you know, things were different, but I wouldn't change where I've been through for the world, because it went into this moment right here.

Michelle Lennon 19:26
Yeah, and you're going to change the world for others. I mean, people don't go in for the kind of social work you're talking about without making a difference in other people's lives.

Marina 19:35
Yeah. Well, I know that our systems are broken, and I know that they're all under bondage to each other. So when one system is broken, it has a domino effect, and it leads into another system. And you know, you hear people complain about how there's so much homelessness and drug use and alcoholism, and yet they're not doing anything to help. They're they're not, they're not disillusioned. They're just ignored.

Michelle Lennon 20:02
I don't think that's the intent of most people that I think, you know, doing some advocacy work, you know, I've seen that people often don't understand.

Marina 20:11
Yeah, there's fear, there's fear, because.

Michelle Lennon 20:14
Or they assume.

Marina 20:15
Yeah, I'm like, you know, I get it. I mean, I know with addiction comes some manipulation, there comes, we're not really in the right state of mind to handle life appropriately. So I know my biggest mistakes happened when I was drinking, but I think everybody has a chance to redeem themselves, and I've learned my recovery that even when you get sober, even when you're doing well, some people just won't forgive you and but I've learned that forgiveness is not for the least for yourself, because when you forgive yourself, you're allowing the energy and the time, the effort to go into things that matter instead of holding the cred and beating yourself up. So it's been, it's been a learning experience, for sure, it's been hard.

Michelle Lennon 21:13
I think too, like the the role of the recovery support worker in the family purpose program, especially, it's to give the the individual or individuals in recovery that, that ongoing support, right? So, so they've been there, so they know, like, not everybody forgives you, you know that. So how do you cope with that?

Marina 21:33
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 21:33
You know? And how do you learn to cope with that? And, and we tend to stay temporally like and, you know, counselors kind of look back at our past trauma and kind of unpack that.

Marina 21:45
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 21:45
We don't do that. We tend to look at, okay, what's happening today? You know, what can we control today? And how can we help you decide have a good day today? You know?

Marina 21:54
So little things that really count. And I also believe that it's the environment that you surround yourself with.

Michelle Lennon 21:59
Yeah.

Marina 22:00
And that's part of the reason why I don't partake in 12 Steps in AA, because I am somebody that very susceptible to other people's actions. So if somebody relapsed, that's not good for me. I can't be wrong.

Michelle Lennon 22:15
Yeah.

Marina 22:15
Because I don't, I can't even have that be a thought, because I don't lose as my kid. I want to use what I built so hard to obtain, to create.

Michelle Lennon 22:27
Yeah.

Marina 22:27
And unfortunately, like, that's, that's a choice you have to make every day, because it takes two seconds to destroy what you've built.

Narrator 22:43
Thank you for listening to Archways' Threads. If there is a topic you'd like to see us cover, email us at podcast@archwaysnh.org or call us at 603-960-2128. Visit our website at archwaysnh.org to learn more about the Archways family of recovery and family resource centers.