Archways' Threads

Narrator 00:02
Welcome to Archways' Threads, a show focusing on the threads of family and recovery support services that help make up the tapestry of life in recovery. Join us as we share stories from peers and participants in the field and practice of peer recovery support and family support and strengthening. And now your host, Archways' CEO, Michelle Lennon.

Michelle Lennon 00:25
Hello, I'm Michelle Lennon, your host of Archways' Threads, and I'm going to be joined today by Darryl Lennon, who is sharing on being a person in recovery and experiencing surgeries and what to do about pain meds. He is currently working at a homeless shelter. He is a dad, and he also owns his own business. He formerly worked in peer recovery support services, and now is using those skills working with people experiencing homelessness. So join us for our talk today.

Michelle Lennon 01:04
Hello, everyone. My name is Michelle Lennon, and I am the host of Archways' Threads, a podcast with family support workers and peer recovery support workers. And today, my guest is Darryl. And Darryl is a person that is been in, you know, a solid recovery, really, since about 2013 when he first started the journey and really fought for his recovery over the past, you know, many years. Many, many years, actually, and has been solidly on a pretty stable kind of maintenance, recovery, kind of, you know, season, I guess, for the past two years after another surgery, and just to tell a little bit of your story, Darryl, you know, how did, how did your addiction really get its start?

Darryl Lennon 01:53
My first start with addiction was really, although I tried some drugs recreationally, my first experience with addiction was falling 40 feet off a roof at 2009.

Michelle Lennon 02:07
Yeah, so 2009 you fell 40 feet off a roof. You know, I just was, I was somebody who's looking up the statistics at 30 feet, fatality rate is is 50%, so it's pretty miraculous that you even survived that initial fall in 2009 and how did, how did the addiction take place?

Darryl Lennon 02:29
I had this day in a rehab to learn how to walk again, and was given enough pain meds to kill a horse, basically. And, you know, in hindsight, I wish I had never really started with pain meds at all.

Michelle Lennon 02:47
But, you know, I hear that and also wonder, how would you have walked again, you know? And I think that's one of the tensions we see often in the medical field, is, you know, how do we manage pain for people who can't take pain meds. But at the time, you didn't know, right, that your body was going to react that way and that addiction would take root, and it was an astronomical amount of pain meds, by today's standards, that you were prescribed legally, originally. But then things kind of went awry in your story a little bit, right? And so what happened when the pain meds no longer were coming from the doctor? What precipitated that?

Darryl Lennon 03:31
I think going from prescription medications to, to not having a prescribing doctor anymore led me to make decisions to medicate myself and buy a less safer supply of things and, and jeopardize my safety, and safety of people around me.

Michelle Lennon 03:52
That led you to, I don't, experience homelessness for three years you had shared and you know so a lot of hardship for you and for your family.

Darryl Lennon 04:03
Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Michelle Lennon 04:04
And then you initiated recovery. How...?

Darryl Lennon 04:07
By going into a program, Team Challenge.

Michelle Lennon 04:13
And what did that program do for you?

Darryl Lennon 04:16
It allowed me the separation I needed, not just my body, but my brain to be away from the substances long enough to have a fighting shot at it.

Michelle Lennon 04:28
Yeah. Recovery?

Darryl Lennon 04:31
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 04:32
Yeah. And then fast forward, you sustained recovery and abstinence based recovery for about three years in that program, and, but you still had some medical stuff going on.

Darryl Lennon 04:45
Right.

Michelle Lennon 04:46
Yeah, and then had multiple surgeries. You ended up having to go through that, you know, required you being back on pain medication. And, you know, tell me about those choices, like, what was that like? You know, knowing, knowing who that the doctors were telling you, you, you are going to be on pain medication. We are going to give you this, knowing that you also have the disease of addiction that's rooted in your brain. We know that because of the type of addiction that you have, right? The type of substance use disorder, and how is that really for people? Because I think sometimes it's, I hear two different things, right, from, from people that go through some of what you've gone through. That it's like, "Yippee, I can get it and I can get it legally." And then I hear other people that they're terrified, and other people that you know the surgeon, basically, you know that I talked to had, said that if people say they go through some of the surgeries that you've gone through without pain medication, that they're lying. And you know, I think about that because one of the things I often worry about, because of shame and stigma and like an abstinence only kind of culture that we have around substance use, that we sometimes don't create a competent culture to support people that are affected by addiction that need to go through, you know, real, really serious surgeries.

Darryl Lennon 06:11
Yeah, I think, I think, in my experience, at least, I didn't know what I didn't know. I, you know, being somebody who's in recovery, I didn't, I wasn't sure where I could, where I could turn. You know, some of the supports that you have, be it the fellowships, sometimes, depending on the group you're in, you know, you're told that you can't partake in meds. But like you just alluded to, like sometimes, you know, my last hip surgery. I needed something when I came out of surgery, you know, but did I need something after that? For me, I didn't, you know, and and that's a tough thing, because, you know, my brain didn't know the difference between pain management and addiction in the brain. So you know, when it's hitting the dopamine uptake sites in your happy zone, and that's tied into how you feel. You know it's easy as the person recovery. I gave myself a pass. I think I thought that it was really helping my pain. In hindsight, now I can see how much it, it didn't help my pain. It just kind of helped keep me stuck and not, and not to say that people don't need pain meds. If I, and I'll need another hip surgery, you know, I'd like to say I wouldn't partake, but I'm not going to cross that bridge until we, until we get there. You know, I like to say, I leave this place. Never taking a pain, pain meds again. That's my hope. But also, I'll leave it for a conversation when the time comes with the doctors, you know?

Michelle Lennon 07:55
Yeah, and that's what we encourage people in recovery to do, is have those conversations with your doctors. But it's hard to be honest sometimes with the physicians, right? Just because of, you know, some of the hard things that sometimes happen as a person with substance use disorder. Do you want to share, like, some of your really, really good experiences that you have with doctors, and then maybe some that weren't so great, that kind of maybe color how you how you share, well, you know, with your with your providers.

Darryl Lennon 08:25
I mean, doctors really don't have an easy job either, but I've had some good doctors and I've had some bad. I think it's easy for doctors to get burnt out, because they just see people with substance use disorder and/or alcoholism, and kind of see it as a revolving door, and that if they just don't make the choice to stop, then they're not crying.

Michelle Lennon 08:50
Not all doctors feel that way, but I know you've run into a couple that definitely have some bias there.

Darryl Lennon 08:56
Right. I've had a few really good doctors, that were very person centered and heard me, but for the most part, my experience with all of the healthcare and doctors around were just, they never heard me. They always just pointed to substance use disorder, pain seeking or throwing things at me that weren't necessarily true, but looked a certain way. You know, I can remember having a hip dislocation, and now the ambulance refusing to move me unless they could medicate me, and how that happened. And then all of a sudden, I get told I have a dirty urine because I have the same medication is in my system that they basically made me take and you know, that is hard, because it's like for me, my personal choice was I didn't want it, but had to take it. And then there's consequences anyways.

Michelle Lennon 09:53
Yeah, and in that particular case you had shared with me what hadn't happened the ambulance provided you the medication, after a dislocation, they had to wrap you up like a little burrito and carry you down the set of stairs and out the door, and basically said, without medication, they, that the pain was too great, they wouldn't be able to move you. And then you were brought to a hospital, and they gave you further meds at the hospital, because they had to reduce your hip and, and that was all good, and then they told you to follow up with your doctor, where you had the hip surgery, and that's where things kind of went awry, because they did a urine analysis on you, and it was positive for an opiate. Even though it was legally prescribed for another hospital, those hospital records don't necessarily get shared, and that's when they refused to manage your pain medication further. And really, they denied you care based on this bad information, more or less or in, and it's not like they weren't told, you know, because I know that you had shared with them that you know, the situation that happened, but then you had a surgeon that kind of advocated for you and ended up carrying you through that time, managing your pain medication at that time, but it still created some difficulties for you because you didn't have that support from actual pain management doctors, right? Like, what made it difficult for you? Do you remember?

Darryl Lennon 11:29
I just think, I think the whole thing was hard because when you talk about being a person in recovery is still frowned upon, and still, I think, taken out of context, where you're basically told you're not allowed to take pain medication, or you're not in recovery, basically. And I think that's the hardest part, is because you're in recovery, except you got what people think is going on, you know, guiding what is going on. So I don't know it is a hard thing to do. And I think, you know, where do you, where can you share that with people where it's not going to be used against you? And I just, I think it's hard in recovery, because there's no safe place to share that all the time.

Michelle Lennon 12:16
Yeah. I think back about, you know, my own experiences, like I was surrounded by, like I have a really healthy social network, you know, of people that I can trust and I can go to, and it's tough, you know? I mean, I saw it firsthand, you know, when, when somebody was not managing their, their pain medication the right way, that the people that I would have expected would have supported that individual didn't, and it was people that, you know, I was surprised, that, that could, could kind of set their bias aside and offer support in such certain situations. If you had some advice for somebody that was going in for major surgery, that's in recovery and is being told, you know, and we should say, like, what you went through was major, you know, you had, I don't have, what was it? Seven, seven hip dislocations before the last surgery?

Darryl Lennon 13:21
I think five.

Michelle Lennon 13:22
Five. Five dislocations, and the seventh, I thought it was the seventh one that they did your surgery, but maybe I, maybe it was the sixth one. But they also, you know, kind of missed the fact that you had a post that turned anteriorly in your leg again, like you were saying, they kept thinking you were just pain meds seeking every time you were saying you were in pain. And it wasn't until they actually opened you up, right, that, that last surgery to find out that the post had turned and, you know, it was a surgeon from Dartmouth who actually apologized to your mother. I remember being there when the, when that happened and uh, you know that they just missed it, you know. And I think that also happens to people with substance use disorder. Too often that you know, even, even when you have an advocate, you know, when you have people in your corner, things can get missed because they're not looking for it, because they're not looking beyond the addiction, and that's really unfair. What else, I, what about your, your last surgery? In, and, actually, the surgery before that, too, you did really well with like managing having pain medication after the surgery and then setting it aside. Do you want to share a little bit about how you manage that?

Darryl Lennon 14:44
I think I just got to the point where I was asking myself, do I want it, or do I need it, you know? And having to just come to terms with that, who, it really wasn't doing much of anything except for prolonging it, you know. And I think having people that you can talk to and that, you know, like I wasn't sure, and because I've had such bad pain experiences, I didn't want to just get rid of the pain meds last time, but I had somebody that I trust that, so they hold on to them in case the pain got bad, but then after a few weeks, just got rid of them for me. So just having somebody that can support you in that, and just to plan if you are going to take them, this is what it looks like, you know, and just, you know, talk about what it does look like, instead of not talking about it, and then having lasting damage.

Michelle Lennon 15:45
And that person was not a family member.

Darryl Lennon 15:47
Right.

Michelle Lennon 15:48
Right. And, and was somebody that had what, 30 years of recovery behind them.

Darryl Lennon 15:53
Right.

Michelle Lennon 15:53
So somebody that really could understand both where you were coming from and as you would say all the tricks, you know. How important was that, having that, that person you know in your corner?

Darryl Lennon 16:07
Super important, especially on, you know, I'm somebody that just has super trust issues, so I pretty much don't trust anybody. So just, like I said, you know, one person that you can absolutely trust, you know, and I know that that person shared their personal experience of what they had going on. And you know, I know that person would never harm me. So super important to have somebody, you know, that person knows that moment from recovery. But it doesn't have to be somebody in recovery, just somebody that you trust, that is on your team, that is going to root for you no matter what, you know, and super important, even if they're not in the recovery boat.

Michelle Lennon 16:52
Did you have that plan before you headed into that last surgery? Was that something that came up after you were back on the pain meds and you knew you had to find some accountability? Like, what was that process like for you?

Darryl Lennon 17:05
I think, you know that night I came home, I sat and looked at my prescription all night long and asked myself that question, do I want it or do I need it? And the truth was, I wanted it and I didn't need it, and maybe I was going to need it. And you know, it was a very natural conversation with that person, who's a friend of mine and a support of mine, and had been there through a couple of times where I didn't make the right decisions and didn't judge me. So I know that, you know, having that person I could tell anything to is really a lifeline, and could save somebody so super important.

Michelle Lennon 17:47
Yeah, and I think about that judgment piece, you know, you just mentioned that she started to make some bad decisions before, and didn't judge for you for it. How, how difficult is it? You know, when you, because your experiences with other parts of the recovery community weren't the greatest when, when things didn't go well. So how critical was that to have somebody, has the same background, as far as has been there, has been through it. But even, even seeing that in the recovery community, we don't always find that non judgmental piece, you know, and just thinking about that piece of it. Like, what was the most critical thing about trusting this person enough, right?That you had to go and tell them that, "hey, I'm struggling with this. Can you hold on to this?" You know, what was it that made you make that decision, I guess?

Darryl Lennon 18:49
I think it was that person too, you know, because, like, they cared enough to just say, "Hey, how's it going," you know? And I probably should have gone to bed, because it was like surgery, but instead, I went to a conference, so I think it was just natural. She was at the same conference, and super important to be able to trust. You know, there's a lot of good people in the fellowship that you can trust, but I think not everything said in a meeting, stays in a meeting and, and that's part of sharing your story, too. I think that sometimes sharing your story, you know, can be used against you, so I think it's super important to have people in your corner that you can trust.

Michelle Lennon 19:35
Now, as somebody who does know somebody like that, what would you suggest for them?

Darryl Lennon 19:42
Peer supports, any type of peer supports, whether it be online or recovery community organization or a mental health peer support person, somebody with lived experience speaks volumes in other people's lives, no matter what part of here it is.

Michelle Lennon 20:03
So you have worked as a recovery coach at one point, and you made the choice actually to resign because she wanted to get these things in order, as far as your health. And I know I was just having a discussion this morning with someone about addiction via chronic, recurring, you know, brain disease, right? We talk about the changes in the brain that have, that happen with people that their problematic substance use rises to the level of addiction. And you're somebody that was diagnosed with substance use disorder, severe, which basically says you have the disease of addiction running in your brain. Looking ahead, do you see things that you would imagine you would take as precautions, you know? Because I think about how we talk about, like the maintenance stage of recovery, you know? And for some people, maintenance is the rest of their lives. Because, you know, the brain changes have been made. Right now, we don't know too much, you know, I think we sometimes we forget the brain is an organ. And, you know, like when you break a leg and your leg is set, and we can put it on your X-ray and see, oh, it's fixed. You know, after, you know, the joint calcified, like you see the healing that goes on. We don't get that with the brain and with the disease of addiction. Pretty much we we look at like the symptoms. We see these behaviors you have, you know, we say you have substance use disorder, severe, likely because of the type of medication you are on for the length of time you are on them. And then, you know the cravings and you know the reactive nature and stuff, some of the things that you've experienced through through your history. You know, since your accident, what are some of the precautions that, that you take today? You know, as far as sustaining and maintaining your recovery. Because you've, it took a long time for you to get there right, to address these medical issues, and then to be able to sustain and maintain your recovery for the past few years. So what are some of the things that you think you do to be able to do that?

Darryl Lennon 22:12
For me, I don't go every week, but at least once a week, to a meeting, and I think in my case, I don't always hear something that's going to change my life, but I hear something that reminds me of where I came from, and that I do have to be on guard, and then I don't got it. You know? I think that, you know, when I did work as a peer support worker, I did get to a place where I would say, "Oh, I look meetings every day." Or, you know, "I don't need to go to a meeting," and that only hurt me, you know, like, you know, I'd probably shoot them saying other things, like, "I need to work on my own recovery." But you know, helping other people with their stuff isn't working on your own stuff. So I would say, you know, find a meeting of trusted people. Now it's a home group that I go to, but it's people that I've known for quite a while, that I know are like minded and want recovery, and they want recovery for other people. So I'm gonna put myself in places that are gonna better line me up to do that, you know. I'm not gonna go back to my old stomping grounds, or I might go try to pull somebody out, and I might take somebody with me to do that, but I'm not gonna go there, because I'm not trying to remember any of those old behaviors, you know. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna train my brain to do different things, to think differently. I'm gonna talk differently about myself and, and others. I think, you know, thinking about other people who misuse, you know, like when I was using, that's what I do, is they're just thinking about me, me, me, and it's nice, and it's kind of freeing to think about other people and put other people first. And I don't always do that, but I'm working on it.

Michelle Lennon 22:12
You had mentioned to me at one point too that your faith plays a big part in your recovery. Do you want to share a little bit about that?

Darryl Lennon 24:19
Yeah, if I didn't, if I didn't have faith, I just wouldn't be hearing it. I would have given up already, you know, now, if I didn't have Jesus, and I don't have anything, and you know, that's for me. I don't know about anybody else, I'm definitely willing to grab people's hands and try to put it into Jesus's if they're willing, and if not, I'm still willing to grab their hand and take them with me, just into somewhere, into recovery, though.

Michelle Lennon 24:49
And how, what are the practical benefits for you? Of curiosity, because, you know, I think we talk about higher power a lot in recovery, we talk about faith, but in something bigger than ourselves. In your case, Christianity is big part of your your recovery story, your attendance inTeen Challenge, which is a faith based program. It's National now, but what are the practical benefits of faith for you, as far as you know, having, having faith, whatever that looks like for you?

Darryl Lennon 25:28
When you're somebody with substance use disorder and/or depression, there's this, this overwhelming feeling of being alone, and you know faith for me, I'm never alone. You know, even in my darkest times, my hardest times and times I've been in complete anguish. I've been in pain where I felt like I can't move on anymore. I've been, had suicidal thoughts and thought about, more than thought about it, and God's been there every single way. And it doesn't, doesn't make it any, an easier journey, but it makes it easier for me, knowing that I have God to help me through it.

Michelle Lennon 26:14
Anything else that you'd like to share? I know, like the whole thing with surgeries and pain medication has just come up repeatedly for us and our, our advice always as peer recovery support is to not give any and to ask them, you know, to kind of work that out with their physicians, but let us know how we can support their recovery in the background. We would, you know, as peer support specialists, like, it would be unethical for us to hold somebody's pain medication, like what you were saying, but we could definitely help facilitate that for them to find that trusting adult in their, you know, in their... I say adult because this had come up with a teen recently, but find that trusting adult that can manage that, you know, hold on to it, or have those conversations. You know, we've, we've talked, I know, with one individual about just getting Vivitrol shot for a month, you know, and that there are options that you can discuss with your doctors. So we, we try to be up on, what are the opportunities out there to help get separation after a surgery? What are the supports? And, you know, it's just always such a good feeling for people when, when they have a plan and they're able to stick to it and they can manage it. Sometimes things go wrong. I mean, that's just been the reality that we've seen. But, you know, just thinking of, of how sustaining recovery sometimes involves, you know, these medical procedures that are major, you know, and what you need to do to manage that. It's a big topic that we've seen recently, and I appreciate you sharing, you know, some of your experiences, any last minute things you can think of that you'd share?

Darryl Lennon 28:00
If you need help, just ask for it.

Michelle Lennon 28:02
Yeah, yeah, which is easier said than done, sometimes, especially with family members or, you know, your closest friends, your co workers, you know. But hopefully, you know, being in the peer world, you know that. And I would say the peer community is pretty good about vetting people, you know. Knowing, I know who would be, who it is that you had supported you, and I think of that individual, and she's absolutely somebody I would go to, you know. And sometimes it takes that, right, the community kind of vetting. Who are those trusted people? Come hell or high water, they're there to support and have your best intentions at heart. And I think sometimes too as peers, we get caught up in watching people go through a struggle and then kind of lose faith in them, maybe because we looked up to them too much, and forget that sometimes you know where they've come from, you know is difficult to, you know, and I would think you know, not judging people still, even if they've worked in this field, and just being that, you know that person that is going to be person centered and trauma informed and welcoming to the individual isn't always easy, you know, for people in the recovery community, because, you know, we want to make sure we're creating a safe space. And when we see somebody kind of compromise that safe space, we have to think about that individual and their recovery at the same time that we're thinking about the space that we're protecting. And sometimes those, those boundaries get a little mixed up, I think, for people. All right, well, thanks for being with me this afternoon and kind of sharing in your experience. This topic has come up three or four times just in the past month for us, you know, and we figured who better to talk about it than somebody who is, who has been through some of this. So thanks for joining us.

Narrator 29:59
Thank you for listening to Archways' Threads. If there is a topic you'd like to see us cover, email us at podcast@archwaysnh.org or call us at 603-960-2128. Visit our website at archwaysnh.org to learn more about the Archways family of recovery and family resource centers.