Archways' Threads

Narrator 00:02
Welcome to Archways' Threads, a show focusing on the threads of family and recovery support services, that help make up the tapestry of life in recovery. Join us as we share stories from peers and participants in the field and practice of peer recovery support and family support and strengthening. And now your host, Archways CEO, Michelle Lennon.

Michelle Lennon 00:28
Welcome everybody. My name is Michelle Lennon, and I am with Archways, and the host of our Archways' Threads podcast. And today I am here with Carina Raya, who is this amazing student at George Washington University, and she's heading to med school, and doing a lot of work around public health, and has recently been in New Hampshire, studying the capacity for probably acceptance, right, and the idea of having an overdose prevention site in the state. And we're super excited to have her. Right now in New Hampshire, as it's going on with, like the rest of the country, many of us are kind of reeling with the impacts of some of the clawbacks of funding that have occurred, you know, and not identifying as, you know, Republican or, or a Democrat myself. I mean, you know, as an independent, I'm just seeing the impacts, and that's been, you know, somewhat catastrophic for the peer recovery field, public health, you know, a lot of, a lot of different programs, you know, in our state, and, of course, nationally too, as we've been talking to our friends and in other systems and other states. And one of the things that happens when things like this occur is we begin to kind of mobilize to provide some advocacy, so people can really get some good education about what's really going on when it comes to the boots on the ground, and what we're seeing in our state, and I know for us as Recovery Center, Family Resource Center, we had one of our senators stop by last Friday, actually.

Carina Raya 02:02
Which one?

Michelle Lennon 02:03
Senator Maggie Hassan.

Carina Raya 02:05
Nice.

Michelle Lennon 02:05
Yeah, and just kind of talking about, you know, what does it look like, boots on the ground, and for us, our healthcare disparities, grant was, you know, shut off overnight, and they were asking, you know, what does that mean for you? And, you know, thankfully, like, we're an agency that has multiple sources of funding, and I was able to con, you know, talk to some of our funders, and, you know, quickly, try to plug holes. But you know, whenever you're plugging holes, you're taking money from other places, when we run into situations like this. And when we're providing advocacy, one of the things that often happens is we're asked to provide stories, you know, about the impacts that different programs have, because ultimately, these funding cuts are, are tied to programs and they're tied to people and jobs, but the participants that you know access the programs, and we were in a meeting together, and you would share that you, you've been pretty adept at sharing your story, and that it was a promise to get there. And because one of the concerns I always have is somebody that runs an agency and, and you know, we have, like, four centers, and we have coaches and family support specialists that are supporting people is we don't want to objectify our staff, our people, the people that have stories to tell, because really, they're accessing support sometimes when they're most vulnerable point in their lives, you know, and, and to kind of hold them up as some kind of project, you know, or something, just seems so contrary to like, our core values, you know. But at the same time, we know that if we don't get those stories out, people do not realize, like, the impact that the work that we do in the peer recovery support world really has, you know, we're or family support for that matter. So, so, you know, I talked to Carina about, you know, her experiences with sharing her story, because she had volunteered to kind of talk about that with all the center directors, actually in the state of New Hampshire. And she's got one heck of a story and laundry list of credentials. And so while I know some of them, you know, I just asked a tentative, you know, what she would be comfortable sharing to share with all of us so.

Carina Raya 04:21
Cool. So my name is Carina Raya. The first credential that I have that is no less valuable than any of the others is I'm a Bikram yoga teacher, and I have been a Bikram yoga teacher since 2014. Why that's important will come up in a minute. In May of 2024, I graduated from the University of New England with a degree in medical, biology and biochemistry. I completed my degree in three years. I graduated summa cum laude and the top 10% of my class at 33 years old. I'm currently a master's in public health student at the George Washington University, and I'm an accepted student for the class of 2029, meaning I'll graduate in 2029 from Marshall University's Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine. And why I feel like I need to give this whole laundry list of credentials is like you're talking about. We are living in a time where the administration, for whatever reason, wants to cut down wean off public safety net programs. And that's really devastating for people who use them. And it would be devastating even for me today, a person who has, like, 15 years of recovery in the bank. So my story kind of starts, you know, when I was, when I was 18. So coming from a sort of difficult childhood background, when I left my family, I started using drugs, chaotically, using alcohol and other substances. And it was sort of a way for me to, like, forge my own identity. But really, you know, there was a lot of trauma built up there, and I ended up spending a lot of time in the mental health system, which shout out to the mental health system. It's not perfect, but dang, I spent a lot of time in the state hospital, and I'm so glad that it was open, and I'm so glad that there were staff there. They were friendly and caring and wonderful. And Donna, if you're out there, I've been looking for you. You were always so nice to me, and I've always been trying to find somebody that knows you to be like you really, you really made a difference in my life. But anyways, yeah, spending so much time in the mental health system, so kind of right off the bat as an adult, ended up on social security disability, not common for a young person, looking back and like, wow, I don't even know that how that happened, but I have been able to not just survive, even though, for years it was, it did just help me survive, but in more recent times, I've been able to rise as a person because of that program. And not just, you know, the access to a monthly, you know, payment, but it opened up the doors for me to receive Medicare, which is an amazing insurance, you know, and when I used to have Medicaid as well, it was easier to get on Medicaid if you were disabled and had Medicare. So having full coverage for all of my physical and mental health needs was essential, you know, for, for my survival for so many years. And then as I made it through, you know, sort of that time of chaotic drug use and like mental health struggles, when I came to the end of it, being on Social Security gave me access to this other program called vocational rehabilitation. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, or you know anyone who participates with them, Voc Rehab.

Michelle Lennon 08:03
Yes.

Carina Raya 08:03
Shout out to all my Voc Rehab people over the years. So in 2013 that's when I really, you know, got, got into recovery, and I wanted to be able to go back to school or get some kind of job training, because for the first time of my life, I felt like I could, you know. All those public safety net programs, they fed me, they heated my apartment, they gave me enough money to ride the bus to methadone, like they kept me alive for so many years. But then I was like, "Oh, I could probably do more than just live." And in 2013 Voc Rehab paid for me to go to yoga teacher training, which really changed my life in more ways than you know, I could even talk about on a podcast. I'm so lucky to have had that, you know, gave me a doorway into being able to work overseas, learn different languages, get really interestedin public health, and, you know, eventually the sort of motivation to want to broaden my scope of practice. But what else happened with that? You know, in terms of my story, is when I was a new Yoga teacher in the studio room that I was working for, she had experienced, you know, drug use in her family as well. Somebody close to her had experienced chaotic drug use. And when I came in and I was like, "Yeah, you know, I'm about that methadone clinic. I'm struggling, but this yoga really helps me." My studio owner got interested in that, and I first, I thought it was, and it may have been, sure, a genuine interest in me and wanting to help me, and maybe wanting to help other people. So I was interviewed by her, and was eventually, you know, my story was put on a Ted Talk, which later on, I had absolutely no control over, and when I had falling out of this person, you know, she wouldn't take down. And all this information and pictures about me are out there into the world that I, you know, have asked her to take it down multiple times. Can't. So anyways, so I, and then she got in touch with the court of apparel. I was interviewed. There's a front page paper article about me, which I think was good. You know, it was during a part of the opioid epidemic where there were not a whole lot of survivor voices at that time. And I feel like the writer of the article did give a fair and balanced, you know, description and provided a lot of, like, my own quotes and stuff. So I appreciated that. But then I was sort of roped into this recovery yoga program where I was kind of like held up as this, you know, person in recovery, and like all I did was yoga, and now I'm cured, which wasn't true. You know, before I came to yoga, I went to go see a psychiatrist. After stopping all mental health care for a couple years, just by coincidence, I saw this doctor, Churchan Mendoza, if you're out there, you're great. And she looked at me after I told her my story, and she goes, "You know, I think you deserve a chance." And nobody had ever told me that before.

Carina Raya 08:03
They're amazing.

Michelle Lennon 08:03
Yeah.

Carina Raya 08:03
You're in a whole new room, you've opened the door, you walked into a room that you might not recognize all of it, but it's all the things that you have put around yourself and and that is, you're recovering it.

Michelle Lennon 11:30
Yeah.

Carina Raya 11:31
And she prescribed me a medication for narcolepsy, because I didn't know that there was some like disordered sleeping issues that I was having, but long story short, this medication put me to sleep at night, so during the day, I didn't sleep 20 hours a day, I was awake, and that's why I went to yoga, was because I had the time and the energy to do that. I was already in recovery when I went to yoga. So it felt so disingenuous to say that, you know, yoga is the key to recovery. It's great, it's helpful. It does amazing things. But a recovery, like recovery in general, is not one thing, right? It is a wide collection of all the things in your life that change, and at first maybe it's one thing, but then it's another thing and another thing and another thing, and you realize all the things around you are suddenly not the same familiar things that they were for years, while you were, you know, engaged in chaotic drugs.

Michelle Lennon 12:41
Right.

Michelle Lennon 12:47
Yes, so, so to talk about it, like, in terms of recovery coaching, like, we would call that your recovery capital, right? Like you're unpacking past trauma, you're, you're putting things in place that are supporting you there. You're meeting, you know, those basic needs and the pyramid of the hierarchy of needs that really is not so pyramidal, you know, it's like, you know, because sometimes I hear people say, "Well, you can't find recovery if you're experiencing homelessness." Not true in my experience. You know, might have been tough, but you know, when I one of the people that my husband and I are still close to, that was, like, one of the first people we coached. I mean, she was, she's experienced homelessness on and off, like her whole adult life, you know, and still has sustained her recovery. You know, she had a couple of reoccurrences of use, but she never stayed there.

Carina Raya 12:56
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 12:59
You know, so, you know, when I think about that, and then also thinking, like it's not ever just one thing. You know how I think that's one of the things I've perpetrated on a lot of people, and it's so dangerous, right? Because if the one thing that you're told is doesn't work, then what?

Carina Raya 13:55
Then there's nothing.

Michelle Lennon 13:56
Yeah.

Carina Raya 13:56
It's the only leg we're standing on.

Michelle Lennon 13:58
Yeah. And it's funny, today I was in my, I go to a group coaching session, like, twice a month, and one of the questions that was asked of me was, you know, what, what would it take for you to be dialed in, you know, to like your next steps, or whatever, and just kind of thinking like it's all a process. It is all a process of getting better, you know. And for me, like, right now, a big boast is just nutrition, you know, like, and what does that mean? Well, I, I'm a lot better today than I was a year ago. About what I am putting in my body is fuel, you know, thinking about nutrition or recovery.

Carina Raya 14:40
Yeah, huge deal. I worked on a farm when I first got into recovery, which helped me pay to get to my yoga training. But it's like I had access to, like, fresh fruits and vegetables, like, farm raised meats, like, high quality dairy products for, like, also the first time of my life, and it made such a big difference. You know, it really was the perfect storm. You know, there was great physical exercise. There was a community of people who cared and asked about how I was doing.

Michelle Lennon 14:40
Healthy social network. It's, it's part of what supports recovery, right?

Carina Raya 14:44
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 14:44
And part of, you know, the reason why some people end up using drugs to begin with. I mean, for myself, I never had a robust support system. So, you know, when I was about to graduate high school, I was like, oh no, what am I going to do? I'm losing everything that I have. And I found, you know, a family in people who use drugs.

Michelle Lennon 15:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in, you know, thinking about that, we, we, in our practice, never presume to tell people, you have to cut people who use drugs out of your life, you know, sometimes you have to have safety plans around them, you know, or, or you know, know what your own temptation limits are, you know, as far as that goes. But I think that's another thing. Like we hear those absolutes too often, like you can't be around those people or whatever when they're, if there's a social network that once saved your life, like the idea of cutting them out can be like no way you know, and it can cause people not to seek what's next, and hearing how you've, you've kind of experienced like one resource after another. And sometimes concurrently, and sometimes, like, in order. Just thinking, like, how important it is to address it all, but it doesn't have to be all at once. And I think sometimes people think that, yeah, yeah.

Carina Raya 16:06
Yeah?

Michelle Lennon 16:06
So, yeah. And sometimes it's.

Carina Raya 16:07
Hard to know what you have.

Carina Raya 16:34
And you think, you know, like, when I was first in recovery and teaching yoga, I also had the impression that that that was sort of the be all and end all. So part of, another reason why I mentioned this list of credentials that I have is when I was teaching yoga, when I was in my early 20s, I thought that was it. I didn't know anyone who was a doctor or a lawyer who also was like out of the injected drug use closet, so I didn't have sort of the Long Range Objectives that I hope my story can give other people. So from 2014 until you know 2020, 2021-ish I taught yoga and I lived overseas, and then I thought, that's, you know, what I was going to continue to do forever. It wasn't until the pandemic happened that I was like, "Oh, I can't teach yoga anymore all the studios. What was like, What is my contingency plan?" And you know, my cousin was like, "Oh, well, why don't you go back to school? You could go be a doctor." And I was like, "What are you talking about? That sounds crazy." But because I love a challenge and I love to do crazy things, I was like, yeah, totally. So I leave college and I got in and, you know, I don't want to come across with like, you know, not humble or something, but like, I'm a smart person. And why that matters is because I thought that I could be the smartest person in the room, and that it would make a difference. You know, because I'm vocal about having been an injecting drug user, having experienced chaotic drug use like that's part of my story that I value, and I value all the lessons I've learned and the tools I got from being in a recovery. Those are all really important things. So I'm not ever going to not tell my story. I'm not going to be quiet about it. And I realize you know, as like a 30 year old college freshman, that apparently not everyone thinks that way. Not everyone thinks that, you know, people who once used heroin can also be doctors. I don't know why, because doctors have higher rates of substance use and suicide than the average population. Fun fact, but this is what we do, right?

Michelle Lennon 17:03
Don't tell me.

Carina Raya 18:01
Don't tell anyone.

Carina Raya 19:03
Don't tell anyone. So coincidentally, around the time that I applied for college, I was contacted by a friend of mine, who's a peer support worker in Claremont, and he was like, oh, there's this lived experience advisory channel that is like getting together, and Foundation for Healthy Communities is putting it together, and they're basically going to provide like, education to various entities throughout the state to try to improve health care for people who use drugs. And I was like, oh, that sounds fun. And I started telling my story, and I realized, though, for the first time, that I could tell my story with my own voice, and when autonomy, and with like a long range objective. And I think that's kind of the critical difference between what I was, you know, my early 20s, sharing my story, compared to what I do now. So my early 20s, it was like, "Oh, you did yoga. Now you're in work, collaborative. Like, things are great." But it wasn't like there was no long range objective. And it wasn't like I was.

Michelle Lennon 19:03
Don't tell.

Michelle Lennon 20:23
Just basically to advertise for the studio.

Carina Raya 20:25
Yeah. And it wasn't even advertise for the studio, to advertise for this person. How, like, great their idea was basically.

Michelle Lennon 20:33
Yeah.

Carina Raya 20:34
And when I started working with the foundation, it was like, we're gonna have you talk to, you know, the birthing center at Palmer Hospital, because these people want to learn how to better treat people who use drugs because they think they're probably not doing it right. People are not having good experiences. They're people who use drugs who, like, are trying to have their babies, but like, it's not working out.

Michelle Lennon 21:00
Yeah.

Carina Raya 21:00
I was like, Huh? Let me, like, think about that for a little bit. So it made me not just have to tell my story, but sort of be introspective about, well, all the times I was in the hospital, how did I feel, what could have been different, and then sort of was like a problem solving exercise.

Michelle Lennon 21:20
Yeah, so being solution focused, like because ultimately, doctors go into that trade, usually, if it's not for just for the money and job and prestige, because they want to help people, you know, but they're not helping people when they're saying horrible things to people that are walking in the door looking for help. And in my own family's experience, my husband had experienced an overdose, and my son had provided the Narcan. I wasn't home. I was actually training, and I will never forget it. It was like midnight when I got the call from my son. My husband had overdosed. They'd taken him to the local hospital, and I sent a recovery coach on that worked with me to the hospital, who's also very friendly with my husband, and thank God, she answered the phone that night. She went with him into the ER, the, you know, he and he was already suicidal at that point because his, his big issue was pain that wasn't being managed. And it's a long story with him, the doctor's not listening for a year, assuming it was something else, until they found the problem. Finally apologized, but you know.

Carina Raya 22:29
Why?

Michelle Lennon 22:29
Yeah, so, but, but that night, the only thing the doctor said to him was, "Has your wife left you yet?" That was the only, only thing that he said to him, and the nurse was the one that put up her hand over his and said, "Oh, honey, you know, you're such a good," what she did, she's, "such a good looking young man. You have your whole life ahead of you, you know. I really hope you get this handled."

Carina Raya 22:34
Yeah.

Michelle Lennon 22:38
And the, the recovery coach there just said, yeah, she couldn't believe it. Of course, you know, the doctor didn't know she was a peer support worker. He, you know, just assumed, you know, friend showed up in the middle of night because you were brought into the hospital and you overdosed, you know, and you know. And it wasn't the first time, like, we had a bad experience there, because he had had a little bit of an infection in his arm, had gotten and, and he left to go get, like, some some scan in his arm or something, and the doctor comes to me and is like, "you know, your husband's an addict, right?" And I said, "Yeah." And so I just looked at him, and I said, "You mean, you know, do I know that he has an disease of addiction running in his brain because doctors like you prescribed oxys twice a day for an entire year, and then cut him off overnight because his workman's comp ran out? Yeah, I think I know that." And he's like, "Oh, you guys have been through a lot." And I'm like, "You think?" You know so, so it's, it's, you know, stigma is everywhere. And you know, when I think about telling those stories, we've come a long way, but, but that's again, like sharing your story, your experiences with, with those that really want to make a difference, because it's, it, this is so much burden, right? I mean, we have a overtaxed healthcare system and overtaxed mental health system. You know, the money is drying up for services everywhere right now because of this clawback from the Feds, and, and at the same time, like, you know, the needs haven't stopped. They've grown.

Carina Raya 24:34
They have not stopped.

Michelle Lennon 24:35
You know, and you know, they, I think on our overdose rates have actually gone down in New Hampshire, but people do not realize like they're so immune to statistics now, but you know, DEA agent that spoke at a Prevention Conference that it was at recently had shared like the overdose death rates in the United States right now, it's like 9/11 happening every two days, and we barely talk about it, and we're pulling that funding, right now, and it's like, like I said, as an independent, I'm like, we got to get along, to have solutions. And I love like, what you were saying, like, this is about being solution focused, sharing your story with a purpose. And it's not about, it's not about pushing an agenda, other than to let's make things better for people.

Narrator 25:29
Thank you for listening to Archways' Threads. If there is a topic you'd like to see us cover, email us at podcast@archwaysnh.org or call us at 603-960-2128, visit our website at archwaysnh.org to learn more about the Archways family of recovery and family resource centers.